Church Hurts And

Leadership and Board Rooms with Tom Melzoni

I was looking around the jammed church on a Saturday afternoon when I was barely out of seminary and traveling with a famous speaker. Now it takes skill to hold an audience on a Sunny Saturday afternoon for a church conference, and this crowd was mesmerized. The content was wonderful and compelling. But something was eating at my insides, so I looked around again at the audience. What was bugging me? What was wrong?

Little did I know that my perceptions at the time would lead to a major life change. These weren’t “my” people. They weren’t the kind of folks with which one might want to go out and enjoy the proverbial beer. It was too neat and too clean. No matter how much I liked the message, I couldn’t get away from the fact that somehow the people who follow a message says something about the messenger.

Isn’t it interesting that when the subject of Church comes up, it doesn’t take long before leaders become the topic of discussion. “This Pastor did this.” “That minister said that.” “My priest one time.”

Why is it that leaders in the church and leadership in the church seems to get it wrong so often and make us want to run away? Leaders hurt us.

To help us navigate these waters today I have invited a man who has spent more time in Church boardrooms than almost anyone else I know. His name is Dr. Tom Melzoni and he’s preached to thousands at a time, been in churches so small I’ve seen bathrooms that are bigger and he knows where the bodies are buried. With a Ph.D. from Columbia University and President of a Foundation that does a ton of good stuff here he is: Welcome Tom. 

Worship Wars, Celebrity & Taste with James Ward

You know Paul, in my lifetime few things have defined churches more than their music style selection. I’ve seen choosing a church go from denominational loyalty, “I’m catholic", "We’ve always been Baptist", "I’m Presbyterian”, to “My church has the best worship, this amazing band, a really powerful service.” or “We still sing the old hymns and have the same liturgy we’ve always had."

In that transition a lot of people were hurt, felt betrayed, were angry, disappointed and confused. Also in that transition a lot of people gave up on church, leaving us at the lowest point of church attendance in our country’s history.

Church hurts. You bet it does. Music hurts. In Church it does. 

Can we learn something from this? What can it teach us about churches, about ourselves and, maybe, maybe, maybe something about God?

I don’t know anyone in this world more qualified to help us navigate these waters than our guest today. His name is James Ward. I don’t have time to list his albums, his degrees, the number of concerts he’s performed or talk about his diversity with children’s music, hymns, choir music, rock and even his preferred jazz and blues. I will say one thing: Jim is the most thoughtful Christian musician I know who has walked through the times we now call the “Worship Wars” and has come out alive, filled with faith and wiser for his bumps and bruises.

James, welcome to Church Hurts And… 

Singleness, Sex and Marriage with Michael Baggett

It’s just a box. You are filling out that form for anything and you know it is going to be there. Married? Single? Divorced? Widowed? Just a box. For some it is a simple check mark.  For many others, that box represents pain, agony, stories, dashed hopes, abuse, betrayal, stereotypes. Why do you care about my marital status? I’m me. Not married me or divorced me or single me, just me.

Oh, let’s add Church into the equation. That ought to help. This healing institution which gives us the gospel and hope for the world, surely they will do a better job with the issue? Right?

Really? You know the stories. The person hasn’t been to church for years and she goes to a pretty building she is considering to use for her wedding to ask about the details? “Well, are you a member?” “To what church do you belong?” “What about your fiancé?” “Your Catholic?” “You are planning on marrying a Jew?” "Have you gone through our pre-marital class?" “Are you having premarital sex?” “Are you planning to raise your children in the church?”

I am so tempted to just launch into a rant on this issue right now, but instead I am going to bring in one of my favorite people in the world and I know he a ranter as well. Hundreds of people every week come to hear this man’s advice about marriage and singleness and faith. He’s the host of the Podcast “Relationship Essentials 2.0”, has been a pastor at numerous churches including Orange County’s Mariner’s Church back in the day.

Now from Sacramento, let me bring on Michael Baggett. Welcome Michael to Church Hurts And. churchhurtsand.org

Race, Ethnicity and Spirituality with Dr. Jim Lee

RECORDED PRIOR TO EVENTS OF MAY 25, 2020. It can really get boring. It really can. What am I talking about? Race. Ethnicity. Bias, Bigotry. Almost seems passé. Ahhh. Now that may not seem like a compelling way to introduce a topic, but let me take a stab at making the point. Just for fun I decided to open a newspaper as I prepared for this show and see how long it would take me to find an article on the subject. I opened the Wall Street Journal. Remember we are talking about Race and Ethnicity and this is the Wall Street Journal. Guess how long did it took me to find an article on the subject? April 21 front page center column. Ready? Headline: ‘The French Are Very Bad at Picking Asparagus.’ Virus Imperils European Farming. The article go on to discuss how Covid-19 raises questions about the viability of an economic system built on borderless migration and a single marketplace—especially in the bloc’s agricultural industry.

Now I am not new to such discussions living for the past 25 years in California who’s crops depend upon migrant workers. I just have a hard time talking about it in a politically correct way. Somehow nationalities, skin color, cultures and accents are going to be brought up and someone is going to get offended. 

The good news is we talk about Church here, so fortunately it will be totally different. Surely spiritual people who believe in Jesus are going to have better insights into Race & Ethnicity than the crazy world out there!

 To help us at Church Hurts And navigate these waters we have a very special guest. Dr. Jim Lee has bunch of impressive degrees including two masters and a non-mail ordered doctorate, is a licensed pilot, pastored churches all over the place and has a family photo looks like a stock image under multi-ethnic.

Jim, I get so confused with this issue, I don’t know how to begin. Jim, Welcome to Church Hurts And.